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Crocodile's avatar

How do you interpret the 144k ?

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:

— Revelation 7:3-4

Do you agree with this statement?

We chose Him because He first chose/loved us?

Thx

The Christian Jung's avatar

Regarding the 144k. I am not a Revelations scholar although I take seriously the imagery presented there.

Crocodile's avatar

How do you describe the imagery? I read it and it seems unambiguous.

Crocodile's avatar

How do you know the symbols that one applies to the dream is prophetic, demonic, or something else?

.

I'm on the 4th "lecture", so to speak; which I've selected randomly.

thx

The Christian Jung's avatar

I utilize the early church fathers methods of discernment. I take seriously Hebrews 5:14.

Crocodile's avatar

What methods?

What is the solid food in Hebrews 5v14?

What is the practice(s) that result as being mature because of the solid food?

If you don't want to answer, you don't have to.

I'm trying to better understand the mind/thought processes going on.

The Christian Jung's avatar

I go into deep detail in my paid subscriber articles. I do so in a responsible manner because I've been in ministry for 30+ years and what I saw over and over was people gorging themselves on "knowledge which puffs up" and growing in pride. I stopped all ministry and got on my knees and asked God in sincerity, How do we help people grow in the gifts of the Spirit, and not a puffing up knowledge? That was when He lead me to the soul. He showed me that in order for people to grow in love and joy and deep peace, and all nine gifts of the Spirit the ego has to be dismantled and people must crucify the desire of the flesh to grow in knowledge. But to do that in a healthy, respectful manner we have to listen to the dreams, just like Daniel recognized the ego at work in Nebuchadnezzar's dream. Our dreams show us where the soul needs the next breakthrough into transformation. Sometimes that looks like a real good look at why we hide behind the intellect and are afraid to be seen by God or others.

Crocodile's avatar

Interesting, I've never seen a genuine believer grow into maturity apart from the sanctifying ministry of the Holy Spirit through His word.

A thought did just come to me, how does someone walking with God for thirty years not spend time in Revelation?

Especially since such a great promise comes with it.

Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep the things which are written in it, for the time is near.

— Revelation 1:3

What a wonderful promise. It presumes we can understand it as well.

Anyway, I don't want to take up any more of your valuable time. I appreciate the interaction and patience you have extended.

Bless you

The Christian Jung's avatar

I appreciate the direction our conversation went today. I have extensively studied Revelations and most of my eschatology boils down to the last sentence in Revelations 19:10, and the statement in Revelations 11:15. However I'm only interested in eschatology as it shapes our present lived experience with God. That is why I don't consider myself a scholar. My favorite books along this line is Dr. Harold Eberle's Victorious Eschatology. But again, I'm more interested in how people overcome fear of the end times (remembering I John's admonition about gear and love) then the end times themselves.